Curse

Envy · Jun 02, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garric

What tactics? You only attack monsters that are melee, so they crowd around you, then you just do an attack that attacks nearby monsters and kill them. If you ran into a group that had a mesmer or a ranged enemy you would be completely screwed. I don't see any tactics running into a group of melee only enemies with no special attacks, killing them for loot, and then doing so for 5 hours in a row. You make me SICK.

Most don't do this just for the gold. They do it to unlock all the junk to make a 20th pvp character with the spells and items they want. A side effect to this? You standing in Lions Arch buying stuff for your toon at a reasonable price. Take away farming and see if you can afford that max damage yellow sword or that bow you have. In it's current state, the economy is low and flooded with things. This is what is more then likely making you upset at farmers. You cant sell some item you found for 30k because it was farmed and is selling for 5k. I say good because it's the greedy people that make me sick and not the famers.

AirOnG · Jun 02, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I love how certain people in this thread actually say it should be harder to farm and grind.

WeiPing · Jun 02, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Unfortunately, farming is *required* if you want to be competitive.

Equipment, in this game, does not make the man.

The difference between any old equipment you will happen to find and the STATE OF THE ART TOP OF THE LINE equipment is very small. Even when it comes to runes...the most desired rune in the game is superior vigor, which has a 20 HP advantage over minor vigor. That's 5% of your hitpoints. If that 5% is *REQUIRED* if you want to be competative, then chances are, you're not going to be competative even if you do have the best of the best.

Basically, I think all this "Oh my gooses, we have to waste so much time to have a chance in pvp" is laughable at best.

Eclair · Jun 02, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Farming is good =P

Some people like to unlock stuff =P

gwden · Jun 02, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

Basically, I think all this "Oh my gooses, we have to waste so much time to have a chance in pvp" is laughable at best.

The fact that you're so slow on the uptake IS laughable. Even after so many posts, from Koreans especially, you still fail to grasp the concept. Maybe you should actually try PvP in tombs with a competitive group before you go spouting off.

WeiPing · Jun 02, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Well, isn't that a compelling post, gweden. Or maybe it's completely aimless and baseless...a futile, desperate grasping of straws hoping to retain some dignity by, ironically enough, using nothing more than insults and second hand opinons.

My point stands. The difference between the best equipment in the game and equipment that anyone can get without even a minute of farming at all is very small, and if you think that difference is "required", then you're just making excuses for yourself.

gwden · Jun 02, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

Well, isn't that a compelling post, gweden. Or maybe it's completely aimless and baseless...a futile, desperate grasping of straws hoping to retain some dignity by, ironically enough, using nothing more than insults and second hand opinons.

My point stands. The difference between the best equipment in the game and equipment that anyone can get without even a minute of farming at all is very small, and if you think that difference is "required", then you're just making excuses for yourself.

Yeah, except the discussion is about skills, not equipment. Like I said, get a clue.

Oh, and I did offer something constructive for you. Maybe if you weren't trying to impress me with your intelligence (

), you'd see it.

WeiPing · Jun 02, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwden

Yeah, except the discussion is about skills, not equipment. Like I said, get a clue.

*picks up a clue*

Hrm. It says here the discussion is about farming. OH MY GOODNESS, MY PERCEPTION OF REALITY IS CRUMBLING ALL AROUND ME!

kungfumonkey2 · Jun 02, 2005, 06:58 PM // 18:58

I agree with Farming, keeps the economy down, keeps items off of Ebay. Helps new players get into the game. For those of you that played Diablo2, it was an out of control economy, and later on the only way to really break into the upper echelon was to eventually fork over $20 for your 40sojs from Ebay. The strength of a society is the measure of its middle class. If we have a huge gap between our upper and lower class it provides instability.

Example:
Lets say 10% of the game is Elite/Uber players, 90% the rest of us. If there is a shift and Items become harder to obtain for the general populace. Lets say a max dmg Fiery Dragon sword or Chaos Axe now costs 40k. It is going to create frustrated players. Which will either hack or quit.

I understand that people that make it to the top want to feel special, and that they have accomplished something. Show off how much better you are than other people, and the hard work you put in to getting there. It is not selfish , rude or arrogant, just simply desiring recognition for your accomplishments. Top players are just going to have to get this recognition by skill, and attitude not simply because of shiny armor and nifty sword.

Rahne Sinclaire · Jun 02, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I've never seen anyone actually complain about OTHER people farming. Seems a little silly, if you ask me.

nechronius · Jun 02, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

Well, isn't that a compelling post, gweden. Or maybe it's completely aimless and baseless...a futile, desperate grasping of straws hoping to retain some dignity by, ironically enough, using nothing more than insults and second hand opinons.

My point stands. The difference between the best equipment in the game and equipment that anyone can get without even a minute of farming at all is very small, and if you think that difference is "required", then you're just making excuses for yourself.

You have little understanding of true competition then if you think that 5% isn't a HUGE advantage. As much as you like to trumpet that skill is the "be all, end all" to winning, the bottom line is that at the highest levels of competition there is VERY little to distinguish between the best participants in sports or activities that require equipment. How many pro golfers are going to just buy a $100 beginner's set of clubs and win a PGA tour? How many race car drivers are gonna take a two season old car and expect to take the checkered flag?

Bottom line is that this game relies on equipment as a part of the game, whcih means that to improve your odds that 5% or 3% or even a meager 1% plays in heavily to your odds of winning more often than not.

Even in a game you consider more pure to skill, like say a first person shooter, you don't think that guys like fatal1ty aren't always looking for the fastest, best, most powerful equipment so that he can squeeze out a few extra frames per second so that he can play as smoothly as possible when the screen fills up with polys? Get real, the edge in equipment is a vital part of all competition.

Just so you know I'm not even PvP'ing right now but game theory has always fascinated me.

WeiPing · Jun 02, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Sure....all things being equal, it's better to have a 5% advantage than it is to not have a 5% advantage. I don't argue that. And for people who take this game extremely seroiusly, it definitely makes sense to get that 5% advantage.

None of that has any effect on my argument, which is, you do not need that 5% in order to be competative. You do not need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over exploiting the game in order to be competative, and if ArenaNet decides that's not the way they want their game being played (a perfectly rational decision considering how mind-numbing it is), that's their decision and they're right to make it.

gwden · Jun 02, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeiPing

You do not need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over exploiting the game in order to be competative, and if ArenaNet decides that's not the way they want their game being played (a perfectly rational decision considering how mind-numbing it is), that's their decision and they're right to make it.

Yes, you do need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over in order to be competitive. Maybe not in PvE, but certainly in PvP. You need skill points for skills as the game does not provide enough of them with missions. If you disagree, read that interview with KOR or whatever, or read the posts in GH complaining of the same issue. I for one, am stuck with 0 skill points and my only option to get elites now is to farm... well, now that I can't farm, I guess I'm stuck. I can always go to the underworld and do quests over and over again-- but wait, isn't that farming, too? Tsk.

Lasher Dragon · Jun 02, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darc.Syde

they dont drop armors, so they're not worth farming...

Kinda what I was thinking... especially with how big of a pain in the ass they can be.

Ninna · Jun 02, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwden

Yes, you do need to spend countless hours running the same farming run over and over in order to be competitive. Maybe not in PvE, but certainly in PvP.

according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive

the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive

Kaeru · Jun 02, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I cannot agree with this more. Farming is incredibly boring and only minimally tolerable when I'm chatting with guildies on vent.

Unfortunately, farming is *required* if you want to be competitive. All that talk about 'player skill, not hours played' is a nice soundbite that fails in practice. Not even counting the need to run multiple characters through the game to unlock all important skills, or having to run to the middle of nowhere to capture build-critical elites, there's still the single biggest source of grind in the game to deal with - superior runes. They're rare, casual players aren't even supposed to find one, and they are absolutely neccessary for the proper functioning of many builds.

If I could just roll up a PvP character and compete I would. But I can't. I need the proper runes, so I go and pharm giants, or ettins, or whatever the popular spot is at the moment, in an attempt to unlock the runes I need to be competitive in PvP - or at least raise enough money to buy stopgaps. I figure the game requires around 500 hours of pure rune pharming before one can be considered PvP enabled. I don't like it, but I'm not willing to lose because of inferior equipment. They want to let me stop farming? Give me an alternative.

Peace,
-CxE

heres a good alternative: quit playing the game

Imaginos · Jun 02, 2005, 07:54 PM // 19:54

To the OP: You're a monk primary correct?

I don't think that farming these hydras is doable for a monk secondary, or i should say a non caster monk secondary (ie war/rng). Not enough mana, not enough mana regen to spam spells to set off zelots fire.

gwden · Jun 02, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive

the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive

Yes, if the expansions bring new skills, you'd have to get them in order to stay competitive.

You know, I heard a lot of these MTG. I never played the game mostly for the following reason: it is expensive. Why is it expensive? Because you need to keep buying packs to get good cards so you can win. Look at those people who sell/trade MTG cards on ebay, they have STACKS of them. That sounds pretty competitive to me.

Dumachum · Jun 02, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

according to your logic

you *MUST* buy all future expansions (with new skills) to remain competitive

the PvP game is fasioned after the card game Magic: The Gathering

- you dont need all skills to be competitive

Bravo!

And I don't give a shit what KOR, any guild, or anyone else says especially the self styled "top 5% competetive PVPers that pwn the server". The arrogance of these pricks is truely amazing and if they think the perceived "grind" is too much in GW or that they should be handed everything on a silver platter so they can circumvent 99% of the gameplay and jump right to the "lollerskates u r teh pwned bitches haw haw haw" then they can simply exodus the server with the rest of the "hardcore pvp" douchebags. It isn't like any game is better WITH them.

gwden · Jun 02, 2005, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumachum

Bravo!

And I don't give a shit what KOR, any guild, or anyone else says especially the self styled "top 5% competetive PVPers that pwn the server". The arrogance of these pricks is truely amazing and if they think the perceived "grind" is too much in GW or that they should be handed everything on a silver platter so they can circumvent 99% of the gameplay and jump right to the "lollerskates u r teh pwned bitches haw haw haw" then they can simply exodus the server with the rest of the "hardcore pvp" douchebags. It isn't like any game is better WITH them.

The argument here is that they already did the missions, did the quests, and now they want to PvP, but they can't pvp competitively without the right skills. As a result, they're forced REPEAT the whole process. This is a problem because most of these "pricks" were under the impression that this game is "skill over time" when they bought it.